Minneapolis Finder Forum MN
RegisterSearchTutorialsMemberlistLog in
Reply to topic Page 1 of 1
Straightest Guy Hit on by Gay
How would you feel if hit on by a homosexual person?

Offended 20% 20% ( 5 )
Puzzled 8% 8% ( 2 )
Flattered 44% 44% ( 11 )
Who cares! That happens all the time in this town 28% 28% ( 7 )

Total Votes : 25
Author Message
Reply with quote
Post Straightest Guy Hit on by Gay 


I thought I was the straightest guy in Minneapolis until one day when a gay guy hit on me. The thing that troubled me was where the heck he got that idea that I could even remotely be a gay. I wasn't sure how I felt. Offended, puzzled, self-doubt? Some friends told me that I should have felt flattered. Why? Because only men want to go out me now? I'd feel flatterred if a drop-dead gorgeous woman hit on me.

Reply with quote
Post  


It's happened to me before, and I've always felt flattered. Assuming that gay people have some unerring gaydar is pretty silly. The only people who seem to have a problem in this situation are straight men, though. I've never known a straight girl who got upset when another girl hit on her. And I've never known a gay guy to be upset when hit on by a straight girl, either. It should be flattering. Someone, somewhere, thinks you're cool/funny/attractive/whatever. If you don't want to respond to that, don't respond to it. But there's nothing offensive about it.

Reply with quote
Post  


Who cares! It happens to me all the time. Lesbians are more likely to cast their nets widely, I think, since, generally, straight women are more receptive to the idea of being with another woman than straight men are with other men.

Reply with quote
Post  


Quote:
Who cares! It happens to me all the time.

Gosh, are there that many lesbians? I know the Twin Cities has a large number of homosexuals, but never gave it much thought until that gay guy approached me. Now, I am on the lookout and have my gaydar up to the high-alert level. No that I have a problem with homosexual lifestyle. I just don't want any unwelcome interest. I think it is borderline offensive for a gay to hit on a straight guy.

Reply with quote
Post  


If you hit on a girl and she turned out to be a lesbian, do you think she should be offended? Or does this apply only to you and your vaguely homophobic attitude?

Reply with quote
Post  


Quote:
If you hit on a girl and she turned out to be a lesbian, do you think she should be offended?


A straight guy hitting on a lesbian woman or a straight woman hitting on a gay guy are quite different from a gay guy hitting on a straight guy or a lesbian woman hits on a straight woman. It is like the apple-orange comparison.

Reply with quote
Post  


People is people. Someone finds me attractive, male or female, I'm going to be flattered and nothing more than that, because I'm secure in my own sexuality.

Reply with quote
Post  


Its very confusing what to do in a situation if a gay guy hits you on the street. I would be very much horrified since I can never think of something like that happening to me. I hope instead of gays, someday a girl hits on me. I will be more than happy to go on a date. Razz

Reply with quote
Post Re: Straightest Guy in Minneapolis Hit on by Gay ... 


Frasier wrote:
I thought I was the straightest guy in Minneapolis until one day when a gay guy hit on me. The thing that troubled me was where the heck he got that idea that I could even remotely be a gay. I wasn't sure how I felt. Offended, puzzled, self-doubt? Some friends told me that I should have felt flattered. Why? Because only men want to go out me now? I'd feel flatterred if a drop-dead gorgeous woman hit on me.


Lighten up. If you're really secure in your sexuality, then you should feel a sense of flattery. It would be a signal that you're universally attractive in some way, and what's the bad thing about that? I've been hit on by gay men a handful of times and I always say the same thing: "I'm flattered, but not my thing, dude." And they seem to understand.

Reply with quote
Post You should be scared as shit if a gay guy hits on you!! 


As a gay guy, all you straight guys should take it from me when I tell you that there is nothing more that all of my gay brothers desire than converting a straight guy to the dark side. We are all predators and we have ways of seducing you. If we can get close enough to you we will throw you down, make you drink a 6 pack of beer, unzip your pants, have our way with you and then POOF! You're now gay as the day is long. Welcome to the dark side. You should be scared not flattered. All us gays are the scarriest buch of f*u*c*k*e*r*s you've ever seen. Soon you will forget all about football and fishing and you'll start redecorating for no reason and you'll really care about who wins Project Runway. You'll start dressing better and talk with a lisp. You'll buy your first man purse and call everyone "Mary". So if you ever get approached by a gay guy again I would do one of three things. Punch him in the face and call him a f*a*g, run for the nearest sports bar for safety or give in to your latent homosexual desires and take the guy up on it. Who knows it will probably be the best blow job of your life. But to sum up I would be scared of all us gays cause we have special powers that can turn the straightest guy gay before you can say "Fabulous" so be afraid, be very afraid..

Reply with quote
Post Re: You should be scared as sh** if a gay guy hits on you!! 


mschutzee wrote:
As a gay guy, all you straight guys should take it from me when I tell you that there is nothing more that all of my gay brothers desire than converting a straight guy to the dark side. We are all predators and we have ways of seducing you. If we can get close enough to you we will throw you down, make you drink a 6 pack of beer, unzip your pants, have our way with you and then POOF! You're now gay as the day is long. Welcome to the dark side. You should be scared not flattered. All us gays are the scarriest buch of f*u*c*k*e*r*s you've ever seen. Soon you will forget all about football and fishing and you'll start redecorating for no reason and you'll really care about who wins Project Runway. You'll start dressing better and talk with a lisp. You'll buy your first man purse and call everyone "Mary". So if you ever get approached by a gay guy again I would do one of three things. Punch him in the face and call him a f*a*g, run for the nearest sports bar for safety or give in to your latent homosexual desires and take the guy up on it. Who knows it will probably be the best blow job of your life. But to sum up I would be scared of all us gays cause we have special powers that can turn the straightest guy gay before you can say "Fabulous" so be afraid, be very afraid..


Laughing

That was hilarious.

Reply with quote
Post  


I suppose that, from a kind of chubby and sort of plain woman's point of view (myself) I would be puzzled if a lesbian hit on me. Because I would think...'Hmm, do I 'look' like one?' why else would they do that? I don't want anyone to think I'm a lesbian because I'm soooo not.

So naturally I think it is valid if a straight man's instant reaction is not flattered, when hit on by a gay man, because they might think the same thing as far as, "do they think I am, or appear to be, gay?"

Those of you who say you would be flattered, that is cool too, but even if you are secure in your own sexuality and self-image, if you wonder what it was "about you" that made them do that, it's a very human reaction, and shouldn't make anyone a 'homophobe'.

And, no I'm not a homophobe, either. In fact, I have gay friends. But I don't want to be ever mistaken as being gay because I'm adamantly straight. Not afraid. Does that make sense?

Reply with quote
Post  


There's a misconception here. You all seem to assume that you can look at a person and instantaneously tell if they are 'straight, gay, bi'. That's ridiculous.

I am in fact straight, but I'm a sensitive guy who is totally in touch with his feminine side. I have gotten mistaken for gay all my life. I know gay men who are very masculine. Lesbians who are feminine. People are people. They are not stereotypes. No one can tell your sexuality by looking at you or even talking to you for an hour.

Be flattered. Someone found you attractive and took the time to let you know.

Reply with quote
Post  


Terry wrote:
Quote:
If you hit on a girl and she turned out to be a lesbian, do you think she should be offended?


A straight guy hitting on a lesbian woman or a straight woman hitting on a gay guy are quite different from a gay guy hitting on a straight guy or a lesbian woman hits on a straight woman. It is like the apple-orange comparison.


How do you figure? It all comes down to one person hitting on another person. You think this is more acceptable because it fits in with your narrow view of who should be with who. Men and women, gay and straight need to meet other people to date. Inevitably you'll flirt with people who aren't interested in you. Whether that's because they're not interested in you specifically or people of your sex doesn't matter. You say you're not interested and everyone goes on thier way. Now if the person gets pushy that's a different story and that's inapropriate. But of course straight guys never do this right?

Reply with quote
Post  


bwoodsdesign wrote:
I suppose that, from a kind of chubby and sort of plain woman's point of view (myself) I would be puzzled if a lesbian hit on me. Because I would think...'Hmm, do I 'look' like one?' why else would they do that? I don't want anyone to think I'm a lesbian because I'm soooo not.

So naturally I think it is valid if a straight man's instant reaction is not flattered, when hit on by a gay man, because they might think the same thing as far as, "do they think I am, or appear to be, gay?"


Do I look like one? Are you serious? Tell me, what does a lesbian look like? Oh right, they've got short hair, dress in butch clothes etc, etc and all gay guys talk with a lisp, wear fabulous clothes, decorate, etc, etc.

Look, if you're looking for a, nearly, foolproof way to pick a homosexual out of a crowd here it is. The only true way to tell for sure that someone is gay. They're having sex with someone of the same sex. Come on people, let's try to forget the useless stereotypes ok.

Reply with quote
Post  


StateOfReason wrote:

You say you're not interested and everyone goes on thier way. Now if the person gets pushy that's a different story and that's inapropriate. But of course straight guys never do this right?

StateofReason: please reason this. Say you love sweet apple, but all of sudden, someone thinks you like sweet potato. Does it make you wonder why somone thinks you like sweet potato? That was my question of the original post.

Reply with quote
Post  


Frasier wrote:
StateOfReason wrote:

You say you're not interested and everyone goes on thier way. Now if the person gets pushy that's a different story and that's inapropriate. But of course straight guys never do this right?

StateofReason: please reason this. Say you love sweet apple, but all of sudden, someone thinks you like sweet potato. Does it make you wonder why somone thinks you like sweet potato? That was my question of the original post.


Offering someone sweet potato doesn't assume they like it; it's just a pretty good way to find out if they do.

Reply with quote
Post  


dorajar: nice try, but you forgot one fact: very few people like "sweet potato", or "sweet-potato-oriented". I have no problem if someone likes "sweet potato", but I don't want to be thought as one of them.

Reply with quote
Post Re: You should be scared as sh** if a gay guy hits on you!! 


[/quote]

Laughing

That was hilarious.[/quote]

Agreed! I got hit on by a guy I considered flamingly gay when I was 20. He was a flight attendant on a plane back to college my sophomore year. I had no problem with it, just kind of a funny story in a way, but he was pretty insistant. I told him politely I wasn't into it, and he kind of kept at it. Obviously not very professional, but ultimately annoying more than anything. But I would imagine that would be universally condemned, not paying heed to straight or gay.

Reply with quote
Post  


Geez...and I just figured it was nice to get a second look, an offer, and didn't really worry if the offer came from a guy or a gal. Frasier, you've gotta lighten up a bit. I've hit on guys and found out they were gay and didn't go soul searching to see if I secretly liked only gay men. I've been propositioned by a lesbian or two and didn't panic either. Someone found you attractive. Enjoy it for what it is and say "no thanks" if it's not your thing, but relax!

Reply with quote
Post  


I don't care who hits on me. I'm married and unavailable, either way!

But hey, all it takes is a simple, "No thanks." No need for further drama, no matter who's doing the propositioning...

Reply with quote
Post That's weird...I agree with Craig... 


I almost peed my pants reading this thread. Each one of you made me laugh. Especially the hysterical satire of mschutzee.

I say embrace your homophobia. If you think getting hit on by someone of the same sex makes you "look" or "seem" gay, then that's your own neurosis and you'll have to seek out a therapist for that...

But, please, let's be honest here - this whole "I don't mind gays, I just don't want people to think I'm like that" is the biggest load of donkey dung I've ever encountered. The reason you don't want people to think you're "like that" is because you think being "like that" is wrong. And so if other people thought you were "like that", they'd look down on you. And you don't want to be looked down on, right? Even though you continually look down on homosexuals yourself. But, wait, you don't mind gays...eek! It's so confusing! "Gosh, do I hate the gays today or not? I can't decide!!!"

YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Either you're homophobic or not. I don't really care either way - just PICK ONE!

Let's get down to FACTS here. Whether you consider homosexuality a "mental disorder" or not (and save it, Frasier, I get it - you think it's a disorder - let's move on), the only reason a person is hitting on you is because they're interested. Period. That applies to gay, straight, black, white, crop-cut, or mullett-head, etc. I rarely hit on guys. But, when I do, I'm not thinking about whether he's straight or gay. I'm thinking about whether he interests me or not. It's that simple. And, frankly - it'd be a relief if the guy said he wasn't interested because he's straight - that's the best reason to be turned down! It doesn't mean I'm ugly, or fat, or smell bad, or anything - he has no interest in other men whatsoever! How can I argue with that?

But regardless of the reason - he's not interested. That's all that matters. And unless you were hanging out at a gay bar at the time, Frasier, the guy probably didn't know - or care about - your sexuality at all. So, how is that offensive? And how is a gay guy hitting on a straight guy any better or worse than a straight guy hitting on a lesbian? There's no difference, Terry. Claiming so proves that you think all homosexual men are predators, which leads back to thinking all gay men are "wrong", which leads to not wanting to be thought of as "like that", which makes you a BIG FAT HOMOPHOBE!

But, who am I to judge, right? After all, I'm "like that", which makes me something that you don't want to be thought of, which means I'm less of a person than you, so my opinion shouldn't matter.

Rabbi Steven Carr Reuben has said that homophobia is "the last socially acceptable bigotry". So, no need for you all to pat yourselves on the backs and say, "I don't mind gays." It's OK...embrace it. Be a homophobe. Just at least be honest about it.

Reply with quote
Post  


Interesting quote by Rabbi Reuben, NoMN...

I disagree with him, though. I believe the last socially acceptable bigotries are to be anti-Christian and/or anti-conservative.

I mean, homophobes are not very well thought of in the media (and I'm not suggesting they should be, either, BTW), but no one minds bashing people of faith or conservatives... it's a national pastime.

But it's interesting... as a gay man, it sounds like you feel bigotry directed at you is "the last socially acceptable bigotry."

And I, as a religious person (not fully Christian, not fully Jewish... somewhere in between) and a political conservative , feel the groups I identify with are the "it's OK to pick on them/hate them/whatever" groups.

Could it be that it's all a matter of perspective, and no matter how we define or see ourselves, it's more comfortable (in a way) to see ourselves as the "unaccepted by others" victims, rather than noticing that we both (I imagine) surround ourselves with folks who do accept us, no matter what "society at large" thinks.

Not sure if that holds water, but food for thought, perhaps?

Reply with quote
Post  


I see your point, Craig, but I have to say that I was well aware that I surround myself with people who accept me. In fact, coming to this forum was the first indication I'd had in years that bigotry toward homosexuals wasn't getting as better as I had thought it was.

Personally, I cannot recall the last time I heard of a Christian being told by another American that he or she was going to burn in hell for being Christian, or that their Christianity was a "mental disorder". And I haven't heard of any recent "Christian-bashings" in an alley anywhere in the United States. The same is true for Conservatives.

Have you ever seen Ross the Intern on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno? He is a raging homo, and the whole joke is to put him in really butch situations and have the audience laugh at his gayness. This is how many homosexuals have sought to gain acceptance in our society - by being the joke. How many Christians or Conservatives have had to do that?

So, no, I don't think your comparison holds water. There will always be bigotry towards certain social groups. Personally, I don't find any of it acceptable, which is why I don't discriminate against Christians or Conservatives, even when they've made it their life's work to discriminate against me. But, the fact is - there are whole STATES in our nation where verbally and physically bashing gays is still considered "OK" and I challenge you to find me an entire state that would let the bashing of Christians or Conservatives go by without critique.

Reply with quote
Post  


I will concede your point that Christians and conservatives are not often beaten bloody or to death in alleys. No one should be, though. But your point has merit.

Although I will point out that there are isolated cases where the exception to that rule has occurred.

But how often is it occurring anymore, generally speaking, no matter who the victims are? I'd suggest it's not an epidemic for any group to be experiencing that.

Sure, there are isolates cases (James Bird in Texas, where he was "guilty" of being black, and the real-life case that Hillary Swank movie was based on, which probably hits closer to the target), but I am not sure that kind of unthinking violence is very common at all, among any minority or victim group... and if it is, the major media is falling down on the job... which is possible, but it seems more likely that isolated cases of such behavior that DO happen get tons of press and lead to the impression that such things are far more widespread than they are.

Also, were it not for alcohol, I'm wondering whether half of the stuff that DOES take place, still would.... Speculation, though, on that point.

But I could be naive in that respect, and acknowledge that possibility.

However, not all bigotry is defined by random acts of senseless violence.

Let me ask you this: how many newspapers write editorials about how stupid, backward, Neanderthal, hateful and -- one of my favorite insults from when I was in college -- "undeserving to live on the same planet as the rest of us" homosexuals were? There might be a small town weekly somewhere or another, but by and large you're not going to find that kind of insult made against the homosexual community in the New York Times, the Strib, or CBS.

Okay, maybe db ("don't be") thinking would say crap like that, but I doubt anyone listens to him anymore.

What you will find are those types of comments and worse made against Christians and political conservatives. Heck, Bill Clinton tried to blame the Oklahoma City Bombings on Rush Limbaugh. (He may earn and deserve his share of criticism, but c'mon... he's no Michael Savage, who's absolutely odious.)

And, IMHO, 10 minutes of Al Franken on Air America gets WAY more personal and vicious than a full week of Rush. Of course, I have my biases, so I don't expect others to see it quite the same way.

I sat in a college class where a public school teacher literally did damn a couple of parents to a hell she probably didn't even believe in, because they asked that their son be allowed to take study hall instead of sitting through a one-week lesson plan she had on tap focusing on a book that had content they objected to on religious grounds.

So, my only point is, the expressions of hatred toward Christians and conservatives are plentiful and present in the culture. And it's not right, any more than bigotry against the gay community is. That's all. Bigotry of any people group isn't acceptable.

(Well, except terrorists and the KKK and other people committed to ending the lives of others. But not all white people are klansmen, not all Muslims are terrorists and not all puppies are cute! OK, that last bit was just to be silly and try to lighten the mood a bit.)

Reply with quote
Post  


CraigInTwinCities wrote:
Also, were it not for alcohol, I'm wondering whether half of the stuff that DOES take place, still would.... Speculation, though, on that point.


Whoa, whoa, and more whoa! I sincerely hope you are not whatsoever trying to say that alcohol consumption is ever an excuse for bigotry of any kind!

You make many good points about anti-conservative/christian bigotry in the media - but that's just that - the media. Our national media is troubling, at best. I will give you that. And the comments that get flung around at each other in the media are inexcusable, yes.

What I find more troubling, however, which is what I'm speaking to in this thread, is that bigotry against homosexuals is still widely acceptable in general society - not the media - I just mean walking down the street.

I saw a hilarious romantic comedy this weekend, Adam & Steve (which I consider a run-of-the-mill romantic comedy but since it's about two gay guys, many of you would probably turn up your nose), in which the main character was nervous about kissing his boyfriend outside his apartment - in New York City, of all places, mind you - because "whenever I show affection in public, some [jerk] from New Jersey always throws a beer bottle at my head." Sure enough, when they kissed, he got conked in the head with a beer bottle.

Slapstick, yes. But also dead-on satirical social commentary. I don't have a boyfriend, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I'd be quite wary about holding hands in the movie theater for fear that some mother would move her family away from us because in our society, it's still acceptable for people to assume that all homosexuals are pedophiles, thanks to the wonderful example recently uncovered in our Congress.

Another difference I see is that I think a lot of people are fearful or hateful toward homosexuals because they just don't understand. Case in point - this thread, where being hit on by a gay guy apparently makes you less than straight and the general assumption is that a simple "No, thank you" isn't enough to satisfy the predatory urges of the homosexual male. These ridiculous notions are from where anti-homosexual bigotry stems.

On the other hand, the current media "bigotry" toward Christians and Conservatives doesn't really stem from ignorance, just simple anger. There are many people who are against the current war and feel that Conservatives are a bunch of oil-greedy war-mongerers. There are also many people who see that Christianity has the tendency to pop up in history as the cause of much violence and discrimination.

Personally, I don't feel that the Crusades have anything to do with the state of the current Christian, but our society is seriously lacking in more rational thinkers like you and me.

So, while I will concede to you that there is some bigotry toward the Christian/Conservative group right now, I hope you'll understand why I consider it "bigotry light" and see a greater distinction between the words you hear on one person's political talk show and the fact that an entire stadium of people in Alabama were yelling "Faggot" to Sacha Baron Cohen when he made an appearance at a football game as his gay fashionista character, Bruno.

Reply with quote
Post  


nomnnice wrote:

Whoa, whoa, and more whoa! I sincerely hope you are not whatsoever trying to say that alcohol consumption is ever an excuse for bigotry of any kind!


Absolutely not. It's a cause, not an excuse. And whether people are drug/alcohol-influenced or not does not change their moral and legal responsibility for their actions, as far as I'm concerned.

All I meant, NoMN, is that if people weren't stupid enough to get wasted, they might do considerably less of this kind of acting out. Sober folks are less prone to violence.

Of course, the ones who still are even when they're sober are extremely scary. Hitler, for example. Skinheads. Nazis. Klansmen. Etc. If it's a life-value to hate, that's chilling.

But take mind-altering/brain-damaging substances out of the picture, and maybe fewer idiots would actually ACT on their idiocy. Which would save lives.

It's no different than the role drugs and alcohol take in domestic violence, NoMN. It is a contributing factor as to why someone did something stupid. But they are still fully responsible for their idiot actions.

As for your other points, I don't have a lot to say because you are making some valid observations...

What I will add is this: My wife and I are not big fans of public displays of affection, and straight or gay has nothing to do with it. We both get uncomfortable when we see a couple making out in public... and 98 percent of the time it's a straight couple. She and I tend to keep our own affection "in our home/in the bedroom." We don't even hold hands much in public... at least not as much as I'd like, since I tend to be the more affectionate one. But even I would rather do that in the privacy of our own home.

As my wife said to her mother last night, "We're prudes." LOL.

Let's see, what else... Oh, yeah... I appreciate SB Cohen's work, but I think his self-rationalization is a bit of a stretch at times. I like the "exposing bigotry" strategy he uses in his comedy, but then he'll toss in a completely gratuitous scene like the one in Borat where he and this guy are completely naked, simulating sex, while wrestling over a picture of Pam Anderson. Stupid, gratuitous, and I kinda doubt anyone straight or gay wanted or needed to see that... But that's my opinion.

One other thing: The Crusades went both ways. Muslims were just as brutal when the tides turned in their favor as Christians were.

Minor point, doesn't justify anything, but it's true.

As for the old saw about Christianity being the source of more violence than... well, you know the old line.

I'm not purely Christian, obviously, but I will say this: it's not any truer than Mel Gibson's rant blaming all the wars on the Jewish people.

Heck, WWII was a prime example. Genocides carried out by Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and Mao had nothing to do with their personal religious convictions. They were all folks with no sense of God, even a skewed one.

Only Hitler had a potential (anti-Jewish) religious motivation. Stalin and Mao carried out their genocides simply to consolidate their power and eliminate opposition. Same is true of many genocides since and going on today.

I mean, I'm not sure if the Arab genocide of blacks in Darfur has a religious component... it might... but to blame it all on Christianity is no better than Mel Gibson blaming everything on Judaism. And no truer.

Finally, I think we agree that the anti-Christian/anti-conservative bigotry isn't as deeply rooted or violent as anti-gay is. All I'd add is, "yet." By allowing the seeds to be sown in politics and the media, it easily could become that way, over time, because it's rarely ever condemned. Anti-gay violence and bigotry is condemned. (And should be.) Broadcasters and journalists get fired for anti-gay commentary. Anti-Christian/anti-conservative commentary tends to get one nominated for the Nobel Prize in journalism. (OK, I'm overstating it for effect... LOL)

But Keith Olbermann, for example, makes million for his anti-Christian/anti-conservative bigotry. So does Katie Couric. for that matter...

Reply with quote
Post  


Here's my question for you - is the anti-Christian/anti-Conservative bigotry you speak of in the media directed at all Christians/Conservatives? Or is it in response to specific incidents?

Frankly, I don't watch a lot of "news" anymore. KARE11 may be mostly fluff, but a dose a day keeps me mostly informed of the pertinent news in the area. I still try to watch Brian Williams, but I'm rarely home at that hour. Any other "news" program, frankly, is a lot of political pundits screaming. I tried to give FoxNews a chance the other day, but it was literally nothing more than people screaming at each other.

But do you have examples of the bigotry you speak of? (I'm not asking as if to prove you wrong, I really am seeking examples.) In the case of Ted Haggard, I've seen some people generalize that "Christians are hypocrites" because of his actions, which I agree is wrong. But, mostly, I've seen people in the media calling just him a hypocrite.

On the other hand, in the Matthew Shepherd case (which I'm not trying to claim is the end-all, be-all of gay hate crimes, just a high profile example), we had the "gay panic" defense, and you had all these people talking about how gay men are predators who are trying to rape straight men.

That's the kind of bigotry that really gets me steamed. When people are a) generalizing an entire population; and b) justifying violence based on that generalization.

Now with some Christians/Conservatives, I will give you that option A is frequently met, and that is not OK. But, I have yet to see option B - in this country, anyway - but I can see your point about "yet".

What I really think the problem is, however, is the high profile performers of these groups. A lot of people who take issue with homosexuals do so because of the people flashing their butt cheeks in a Pride parade. And yet, that accounts for only a slight percentage of the homosexual population.

Same goes for a-holes like Rush Limbaugh. I actually agree with some of his politics, but the whole Michael J. Fox incident was appalling. So, that's all a lot of people see, and it creates rage.

And, frankly, I have little incentive to listen to anybody who says that people like me are the downfall of society. So...maybe this is going to sound bad...but I see things like you mention with Keith Olbermann less about bigotry and more about giving people a taste of their own medicine. Conservatives and Christians tend to, politically speaking, attack quite viciously (and I'm speaking about the public representatives of these groups that one sees in the media, not all people in those groups). So, just like I cringe when a public gay rights advocate says something attack-worthy, maybe the "bigotry" you speak of in the media is a little necessary right now in order to get people in those groups to learn to cringe when their representatives say something really offensive. Do you follow? (I didn't make that point very well.)

Reply with quote
Post  


NoMN,

I notice things at the time they happen, but I don't have a list handy. If it would be a help, I could do some research and get back to you, because I'd rather be accurate than general about examples.

One exercise I find handy, however, is this: When listening to anyone - Rush and Hannity on the right or Franken and Olbermann on the left - I try to ask myself this: would I appreciate it if this were being said about someone I liked/agreed with?

If the answer is, "yes," then I'm probably OK. If the answer is, "no," then I'm probably just doing the "rah rah, go our side, boo the other side" stuff. Some of that has its place, but it's a good tool that I've used to help identify whether I'm engaging in rah-rah stuff or truth. I don't always measure up, but I try.

Matt Shepherd is an older case so I can't recall my reactions at the time. But frankly, for me it comes down to this: crimes are crimes and are matters of the individuals involved. Projecting it onto an entire community is wrong. So, just as it's wrong to paint all gays with one brush stroke based on the action of one gay person, so it is also wrong to paint all Christians with the same brush as one paints Mel Gibson, for example. Or don't-be-thinking, in terms of conservatives.

This discussion does touch on the hate crime issue, and on that point, I tend to agree with W., even though he's not a great public speaker and kinda bungled a good point.

Which is this: W. was under criticism for the death of James Bird, because he was governor at the time that horrible attack took place, but didn't support hate-crime legislation.

Here's his point, which I agree with, but hopefully I'll state it more clearly than he did.

The laws on the books already covered violent assault and murder. The folks who did that to James Bird, under laws already on the books, were all either on death row, or in prison without any parole eligibility whatsoever, ever.

So, what good would "hate crime" legislation do? How could those folks be punished any more severely than they already had been, with the laws already on the books? Passing hate crime laws may seem trendy and make one project an image of compassion, but the truth is nearly all crimes covered by proposed hate crime laws (in fact, I'm not sure there are any that aren't covered) are ALREADY crimes. One just needs the laws on the books to be enforced. And passing hate crime laws - or any laws - won't change idiots from being idiots.

To be honest, if someone assaults someone, rapes someone, kills someone, robs someone or whatever... I don't care that much about motive, I don't care that much about who the perp or the victim are, from a LEGAL standpoint. What is relevant is, "are they guilty" and then "let's impose the appropriate penalty."

Refresh my memory: did the folks who victimized Matt Shepherd get off? Get off light? Or what? Because if all we're talking about is some amoral defense lawyer's line of defense, that opens up a whole different can of worms.

I think where I may part ways with you a bit is in your final point. I tend not to agree that conservatives and Christians attack more viciously than, say, liberals and the ACLU and People for the American Way and MoveOn.org. Or Keith Olbermann, LOL.

And even if that's not so, I tend not to agree that "evening the scales by giving it back to them" is a justifiable practice. I tend to stick by the old saw about "two wrongs don't make a right." More of a Martin Luther King Jr. approach than Malcolm X.

Reply with quote
Post  


CraigInTwinCities wrote:
I think where I may part ways with you a bit is in your final point. I tend not to agree that conservatives and Christians attack more viciously than, say, liberals and the ACLU and People for the American Way and MoveOn.org. Or Keith Olbermann, LOL.

And even if that's not so, I tend not to agree that "evening the scales by giving it back to them" is a justifiable practice. I tend to stick by the old saw about "two wrongs don't make a right." More of a Martin Luther King Jr. approach than Malcolm X.


Now, I did not say "more viciously". I just said "vicious". The attacks of liberals vs. conservatives is pretty equal, I would say.

What I'm really trying to say is that instead of focusing just on the bigotry you perceive in the media, it may be a good idea to take a closer look at why such attacks are rendered. I frequently listen to Dr. Joy Browne on the radio. She tends to be pretty level-headed about every caller's problem (as opposed to Dr. Laura, who tends to be judgmental of a lot of her callers). Anyway, she will often tell her caller, "I can't do anything about what the other guy is doing - I can only help you do something to improve the situation."

Which is why I often try to have an actual conversation about the things that I care about. Such as gay unions - I try to present a solution to the problem as I see it rather than just bitch about it. The same for anti-gay bigotry. The problem there is ignorance, so the solution is information.

So, I would just encourage you to try to examine the media problem more objectively. I think there's a tendency to assume that anyone who is not in your political corner is being irrational and bigoted toward people like you. That's why I check in with FoxNews every once in a while. I'm not going to pretend it's easy to listen to the screaming, but I try to learn something from it anyway.

Reply with quote
Post  


First off, let me say I appreciate the level of dialog we've finally reached, based in mutual respect. Smile

Good point, you did say vicious, not more vicious. I tend to see the left as slightly more personal, slightly more vicious, but that's probably my bias.

I appreciate the points you made. As for the examples, I will look into them and try to present some concrete examples of what I mean.

Like you, I don't just get my news from sources I agree with. I listen to the big three networks, not just Fox, and even gave Katie Couric a solid one-week trial when she started up. (I confess that Rush's Free Speech appearance had an influence.)

Sometimes, I even *shudder* listen to as much AirAmerica and NPR/MPR as I can stand...

BTW, I may find Al Franken odious politically (all he does is name-call anymore and calls it funny) but I will say that, as a person who grew up with an alcoholic dad (he eventually went through treatment and sobered up, when I was 13), I do find his movie STUART SAVES HIS FAMILY to be a huge emotional touchstone for me, one of his most genuinely funny, touching, human pieces of writing he's ever done, before or since.

Display posts from previous:
Reply to topic Page 1 of 1
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum