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Sin? What a concept!
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Post Sin? What a concept! 
Do you believe in Sin?
IF so...what makes something a sin?

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LadyM, sin is not something that exists or does not exist based on our belief in it, which the phrasing of your question kind of presupposes.

Sin is a Judeo-Christian concept in its origin, but comes out of the in-born sense of right and wrong nearly everyone except serial killers seem to possess.

At a basic level, sin is knowing what's right and wrong, and choosing the wrong.

From a Torah standpoint, sin is falling short of the standard of conduct established by haShem. It is haShem who decides what sin is, not us. His definitions can be found in the Torah, and unlike what most would have you believe, they are not vague or poetic expressions. "Thou shalt not..." is pretty unambiguous.

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Craig

IMHO
The concept of "sin" is man made. It does not exist on it's own and requires belief to retain any power. Animals have no sin. I asked this question to get views from all sides on why they believe it or not, and why people feel the need to believe in it if they do.

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That's fine. I've shared my viewpoint on the issue. We simply disagree. Onward! Very Happy

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I don't know.

I don't think I do believe in "sin" in the Biblical sense, though I certainly believe in the notions of good and evil, temptation, restraint, integrity, joy, passion, making mistakes, learning, living fully, and striving to have your thoughts, words and actions motivated by Love.

I guess I'd rather think of things in terms of learning experiences, personal growth, honor, integrity, generosity, and love. Not in terms of shame, punishment, failing, and inadequacy. The word "sin" to me conjures up the latter, but that's just me. It's definitely possible that it doesn't have those connotations for others and we believe the same thing, just with different semantics.

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Post Re: Sin? What a concept! 
LadyM wrote:
Do you believe in Sin?
IF so...what makes something a sin?


Sin is a word how can you not beleive in a word?

an act, a thought, or behavior that goes against the law or teachings of a particular religion, especially when the person who commits it is aware of this

something that offends a moral or ethical principle

in Christian theology, the condition of being denied Godís grace because of a sin or sins committed

to commit a sin, especially by knowingly violating a law or the teachings of a particular religion

to commit any serious moral or ethical offense

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but do you believe sin exists...and why do you feel you the need to believe in it?

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LadyM wrote:
but do you believe sin exists...and why do you feel you the need to believe in it?


Its a word plain and simple no different than any other has no impact on my daily life

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Somehow, db, with all your judgmental pronouncements about the evil of others, I find that last statement very hard to believe.

But...you have to live with that attitutde, not me. And I do wish you a Merry Christmas.

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LadyM wrote:
Somehow, db, with all your judgmental pronouncements about the evil of others, I find that last statement very hard to believe.

But...you have to live with that attitutde, not me. And I do wish you a Merry Christmas.


I have never made any judgmental pronouncements except in jest.

Furthermore, I will not fall for your silly word trap.

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Your "jests" tend to be very sharp and meanly worded, sir, and I think perhaps you don't realize just how negative and narrow minded they make you seem.

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LadyM wrote:
Your "jests" tend to be very sharp and meanly worded, sir, and I think perhaps you don't realize just how negative and narrow minded they make you seem.
Shocked

Cry me a river

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ladym, I'm not sure if people would concieve of sin (or wrong doing) if they were not taught to do so. However, we are not animals. Even some animals have cultures which punish those who do wrong. A wolf can be ostracized for disrupting the pack culture or even killed if it takes food from the young. The young of various mammels are frequently chastized for causing problems or annoying the adults. So I'm not sure that your assertion that animals don't have sin (or wrongdoing) is actually true. Also, humans are social creatures and part of living socially means restraining oneself for the benefit of the funtioning of the whole. If you have kids you have probably watched a human struggle mightely to act against their own desires in order to conform to family and societal norms (like not hitting when angry). That's what the teaching of sin is really meant to do - communicate those boundaries and behavioral norms which are required for us to function together. Sin has gotten a bad rap as the lines of what is acceptable and what is not have been beant, twisted and moved, but the idea that there need to be norms which restrain our behavior in order for society to function is a good one, I think.

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Post "... no such thing as an original sin" -- Elvis Co 
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ladym, I'm not sure if people would concieve of sin (or wrong doing) if they were not taught to do so.


"Sins" are usually violations of natural (moral) law. The story of The Little Red Hen -- ("Which of you lazy bastards will help me eat the bread?" That story.) -- is based on what Locke called the "mysterious alchemy" that mixes labor and natural resources to create a natural property right.

Do children need to be taught that the Little Red Hen has a more valid claim to the bread than the other animals? If the story ended with the other animals voting that all share the bread equally, would children need to be taught that this is unfair, an immoral violation of natural law, a sin?

Doubtful. The story works because our innate sense of morality, informed by reason, tells us what is or isn't fair.


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But is the concept of sin in the religious sense, i.e. someting one attones for and feels guilt from, the same as understanding right and wrong?

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[url]But is the concept of sin in the religious sense, i.e. someting one attones for and feels guilt from, the same as understanding right and wrong?[/url]

Well, certainly there are peculiarities like not eating certain foods or attending religious services which are directly tied to religion, but generally sin as religions teach it is not much (if at all) different from understanding wrong and right. I suppose it's a little different in that sin is seen as being not only against fellow man, but an affront to the divine who created and cares for our fellow man. Also, in the religious sense guilt comes before attonement and leads to attonement, not the other way around. I think that if we do something wrong, guilt is useful in that it causes us to seek to set things right and avoid repeating the error. The problem with guilt is when we can't let go of it. However, one of the big benefits of religion,when properly taught and understood, is precicely that it provides a healthy way to be released from guilt. As for attonement, I think the world would be a better place if we all acknowledged our error (ie felt guilt) and set about trying to set it right (ie attonement).

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