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Imparting values to children
Should secular schools do more to indoctrinate young students with societal values?

Yes 50% 50% ( 1 )
No 50% 50% ( 1 )

Total Votes : 2
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Post Imparting values to children 
When I was a kid, nobody sat me down and told me not to hit girls or that the strong should protect the weak. Those values were instilled through my reading of hero fiction -- comic books, ERB books, etc. Seems to me a subtle indoctrination occurs when a reader identifies with a book's hero or heroine, the latters' values shaping the reader's.

There's usually a values component in the religious indoctrination many children receive, but I'd like to see non-religious schools use their early reading programs to systematically indoctrinate children with values considered beneficial to the individual and society as a way to counteract the damaging messages children assimilate through popular culture.


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When did it become the job of schools to raise our children? I thought parents had some responsibility in that area?

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When did it become the job of schools to raise our children? I thought parents had some responsibility in that area?


I'm inclined to agree with Hillary that it takes a village to raise a well-adjusted child, and ideally there's a collaborative effort made by parents, schools, and others. Do you think it's solely the responsibility of parents to raise their kids?

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LadyM wrote:
When did it become the job of schools to raise our children? I thought parents had some responsibility in that area?


Why send our kids to school at all then?

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It's hard to really discuss this issue until we can let go of the erroneous assumption that morality can only come from religion.

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Post Alternatives? 
The problem being of course, MN, is determining what values to transmit if we are all free to interpret morality and proper conduct individually. If there is no formal consensus, then what values do we teach, and what right does one have to contradict another? Values clarification used to be handled in the voluntary association of religious faiths, who agreed among themselves to observe them as a condition of continuing membership (at least in theory). If faith based moral definition is no longer relevant, then the only remaining parameters are criminal law, and they are based on survival, not civility or morality.

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If faith based moral definition is no longer relevant, then the only remaining parameters are criminal law, and they are based on survival, not civility or morality.


Not even remotely true. It's been said that if people would adhere to Natural Law, there'd be no need for government.


There'd also be no need for religious moral parameters. A lot of atheists don't cheat on their partners, not because of any criminal laws or religion-based morality, but because cheating is a betrayal of the trust of a loved one and usually involves lying, both being contrary to a moral life. There's no credible reason to believe an atheistic society wouldn't be a civil and moral one.


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No, it is not only the job of parents to instill values in their children, but it has to start there before schools can do their part. And yes, a village is needed, but how many of you truly know your neighbors? Your child's teachers? Their friends parents?

I'm sure many folks here at the forum can answer "Yes" to those questions, but I know many other parents who view school as a daycare/nanny service to do their work for them. I've seen teachers during school conference evenings not meet more than 3 parents out of a class of 30 students. I've also known parents that will back up their child's version of anything no matter how unreasonable, against a teacher's request for report of misbehavior. And don't even get me started about litigation threats.

Our culture in the US has taken a a view of teachers not as those who can impart knowledge and help us better ourselves both intellectually and spiritually, but instead as "civil servants" accountable to us but with little or no real value.

And we wonder why few people read books, respect their elders, finish school or have a good work ethic?

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No, it is not only the job of parents to instill values in their children, but it has to start there before schools can do their part. And yes, a village is needed, ...


Would you agree that if one segment (irresponsible parents) of the village isn't living up to its child-raising responsibilities, it's incumbent on other segments to mitigate the damage to the children? My OP suggested one method of instilling some values in children that too many parents are unwilling or unable to. No offense, but I'd rather hear your opinion of my suggestion than what I consider your restating of the obvious, although I don't begrudge the catharsis of a good kvetching.

Yes, too many parents are't living up to their child-raising responsibilities. Yes, too many people have unrealistic expectations when they foist the parent(s)' chores onto teachers and the schools. Yes, most of us don't live in the traditional village structures where everyone knows everyone anymore. Yes, grass is green and the sky is blue.

You're obviously someone the village should be looking to for constructive solutions, so I'd like to hear some from you. (No, I don't consider licensing prospective parents to be a constructive idea and I doubt you do either.)


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Post Licensing parents 
Odin:

Actually, I do consider mandatory classes for people wanting to have children a good idea. Sorry.

The major issues I see revolve around lack of accountability for everyone involved.
Parents are not accountable for the actions of their children
Children are not given consequences for actions on a consistent basis
Teachers and law-makers take the path of least resistance in dealing with the previous 2 issues.

If we start educating prospective parents and try to find some way to make sure this "education" has taken root, we start along the road to recovering some of the core values of most societies.
IF we start enforcing consequences consistently for both good and bad behaviors at all levels, then children and parents alike will realize the "rules" of society apply to all.


That's a log of "if's", though. It is not as difficult on an individual basis as we might think. I've had children at my home whose parents offer no discipline. The kids are unmanageable brats upon arrival. If left alone with me...surprisingly, we get along fine after an hour or so. I do not strike, insult, or yell at them unless imminent danger is at hand (yelling only). I simply explain the "house rules" in a friendly manner and enforce them.

I know many folks will be insulted by this analogy, but humans, like dogs, need to know the rules of interaction. They need limits to feel secure. Children especially, need to know their place in the "pack". Without it they are insecure and spend all their time testing the limits.

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Actually, I do consider mandatory classes for people wanting to have children a good idea.


I think it'd be good ideas if Republicans abstained from voting and a lot of churches were shut down. I don't consider them constructive ideas because I don't see them happening and I define "constructive ideas" as those that have more than a snowball's chance of fruition.

How will you force people to take mandatory classes on parenting? If they don't comply, are their kids taken away and put 'em in The Newt's orphanages? Are non-compliers fined, taking money from their family's finances, food from their children's mouths? What makes you think people who "can't get their learnin' on" in school will get their learnin' on in parenting classes?

How would licensing be sold politically? Think the people who gave us "the death tax" won't call it a "love tax" or some other insipid name? Think there won't be an outcry from religious nuts when the State intrudes on their god's decision to bless people with children? Gonna create another government bureacracy to monitor/enforce compliance?


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