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What are some of your favorite quotes?

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"Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool."

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"Every man dies. Not every really lives" - the movie Braveheart

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"Never appeal to a man's better nature; he may not have one. Invoking his self interest give you more leverage."

and for a movie quote...

"Let me be frank from the commencement; you will not like me. The men will be jealous and the ladies will be repelled. You will not like me and you'll like me a good deal less as we go on."

and last but not least; when a woman accused Winston Churchill of being drunk:

"And you Madam are ugly. But in the morning I shall be sober."

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Post Deja Vu 


"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

Cicero, 55 B.C.

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Post Cicero Again, Born Too Soon 


"A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can trust such creatures?"

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Post Nickel's Worth 


"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"

-Thomas Jefferson

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Post My Favorite Quote 


If at first you don't succeed, Fu* it!

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If you love something, let it go. If it comes back, kill it.

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Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

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Post Thomas Jefferson Quotes 


Sent to me, sources unconfirmed:

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

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Post Nostradamus? 


Norman Mattoon Thomas (November 20, 1884 - December 19, 1968) was
a leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential
candidate for the Socialist Party of America.

The Socialist Party candidate for President of the US , Norman
Thomas, said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But,
under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of
the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist
nation, without knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I
no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the
Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.

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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest - Denis Diderot

I like to have a martini, Two at the very most. After three I'm under the table, After four I'm under my host! - Dorothy Parker

Just two quotes which have never failed to entertain me.

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Post Margaret Thatcher 


"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples' money".

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Post Unknown Source But Great 


"Helen Keller graduated from college with honors. She was blind and deaf. So what's your problem?"

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"I tell you if there is one instinct I just can't get with at all, it's the urge to kill something beautiful, just to hang it on your wall." --Ani Difranco

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Post George Bernard Shaw On Fate 


People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them.

-- George Bernard Shaw

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Post Thomas Jefferson On Banks 


"Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

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Post Education 


"Perhaps the most valuable result of all education is
the ability to make yourself do the thing you have to do, when it ought to
be done, whether you like it or not. This is the first lesson to be
learned."

Thomas Henry Huxley

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Post From "Bucket List" 


"I've learn a few lessons growing older. Never waist a hard-on, Never stray to far from the bathroom, and Never trust a fart." jack nicholson

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Post Reality TV? 


One of the few good things about modern times: If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us.

Kurt Vonnegut

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Post Thomas Jeff 


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson

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Post My knowledge of Jefferson's writings is by no means . . . 


comprehensive, but I doubt he said half of the things you've attributed to him, and almost certainly not the last quote. Making up Jefferson quotes seems to have become a cottage industry.

"May the force be with you." - Thomas Jefferson

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Post How does one go about . . . 


hammering guns into plows anyway?

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"A sin [Original Sin] without volition is a slap at morality and an insolent contradiction in terms: that which is outside the possibility of choice is outside the province of morality. If a man is evil by birth, he has no will, no power to change it; if he has no will, he can be neither good nor evil; a robot is amoral. To hold, as man's sin, a fact not open to his choice is a mockery of morality. To hold man's nature as his sin is a mockery of nature. To punish him for a crime he committed before he was born is a mockery of justice. To hold him guilty in a matter where no innocence exists is a mockery of reason. To destroy morality, nature, justice and reason by means of a single concept is a feat of evil hardly to be matched. Yet that is the root of your code." - Ayn Rand

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Yale's Top 10 quotes of the year:

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/79412512.html?elr=KArks

(Jesse Ventura landed one!)

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Post Spring Training Baseball Coming 


“People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.”
—Rogers Hornsby

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Remember that the government cannot give anything to anyone unless they take it away from someone else first. [Simple logic]

-author unk

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Post Oh? 


"Remember that the government cannot give anything to anyone unless they take it away from someone else first. [Simple logic]"

Who does the estate tax take from?

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Heirs, perhaps?

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Post No 


" The estate tax is payable by your estate - it is usually paid by the estate of the decedent before property is distributed to the beneficiaries of the estate."

http://law.freeadvice.com/tax_law/estate_tax_law/estate_tax.htm

In short, the estate tax takes from no one.

And then there's the people without heirs who leave their estates to various govt orgs - police depts, fire depts, libraries, etc., or who die without a will and heir(s). Who does govt take money from in those instances?

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Maybe this question needs to be reverse engineered then, Odin. In the absence of the tax, who would the money go to? To suggest that they have lost nothing would be the equivalent of saying that the victim of an armored car robbery is the driver, and not the bank whose money they were carrying.

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Post In the absence of the tax? 


Who knows? Maybe the deceased would leave some to the govt anyway. Or to heirs. Or to his or her favorite hooker(s). The point is that you can't take from someone something that was never his or hers.

The money in the armored car belongs to somebody, the money taxed from the estate of the deceased doesn't. The estate tax doesn't take from the heirs because it's not their money, wasn't their money and never becomes their money.

If I send you ten bucks I owe you and it gets lost in the mail, do I still owe you or did you lose the money?

And then there's the share of lottery proceeds received by the govt. Who is that "taken" from? How about Post Office and patent filings revenue, park and license fees, mineral sales, etc.?

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Robert Deniro, in "Meet The Parents"...

Jack Byrnes:" I will be watching you and if I find that you are trying to corrupt my first born child, I will bring you down, baby. I will bring you down to Chinatown!"

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"The money in the armored car belongs to somebody, the money taxed from the estate of the deceased doesn't. The estate tax doesn't take from the heirs because it's not their money, wasn't their money and never becomes their money."

I guess this would be a legal question, Odin. As I understand it, one's "estate" is an inanimate collection of assets and/or liability. The executor of one's estate is someone who was appointed by you while you were alive to act as your agent with power of attorney after your death.

I suppose the same question might arise about your paycheck. You agree to work for X dollars per hour, and your employer agrees to pay you X dollars per hour. But he is also required to withhold income tax on your wages, which he then duly delivers to the Feds, and then delivers what remains to you. There's little doubt that the entire sum of your wages was yours originally, since the Feds were no party to the agreement reached between you and your employer when you were hired and had nothing to do with earning the income. It would then follow logically that the money was taken from you, albiet indirectly, voluntarily or not.

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Post I disagree that it's the same question 


The govt takes a portion of money owed me in your example. That is a taking, voluntary or involuntary.

In most instances heirs aren't owed their inheritances. Estates are apportioned, the govt receives what it deems its share and heirs receive the remainder. That isn't a taking because the govt's share of the estate is never owed to the heirs.

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"The most beautiful paintings and sculptures, the greatest poetry, have not always been born from torment or bitterness. Often they have sprung from contemplation, from joy, from an instinct or wonder toward all things. To create from joy, to create from wonder, demands a continual discipline, a great compassion.... With time and sincerity, you will discover a way to work and write that does not harm you spiritually, that does not tempt you to vanity, that is the deepest expression of your spirituality. You will find a voice that is not your voice only, but the voice of Reality itself.... If you can be empty enough, that voice can speak through you. If you can be humble enough, that voice can inhabit you and use you." --Thuskey Rinpoche

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"There ain't many troubles a feller can't fix with a quart of Jim Beam and a .30-06." --A friend

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Post The Rinpoche quote 


reads like a comic routine. "I have such great compassion, sincerity, discipline and . . . humility that my voice speaks for Reality itself."

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Post Re: The Rinpoche quote 


OdinofAzgard wrote:
reads like a comic routine. "I have such great compassion, sincerity, discipline and . . . humility that my voice speaks for Reality itself."


huh. I don't think you read it right. Better luck next time!

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Which reminds me of a movie quote I think of from time to time....

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

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Post It Flashed Before Mine Eyes 


“Inside every older person is
a younger person wondering,
what the fuck happened.”

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Post Favorite Quote 


The hardest step any woman will take, will be that first one,
when she rises to her feet, against all the protests of her inter-self,
and proceeds to do NOW, not tomorrow, or in the Spring or in the Fall,
but NOW, that which she knows she ought to do.
For if a women lacks the courage to act now, she’s probably lacked it in the past,
and she will lack it in the future.
But if she does act now, she will be acting the part of a woman who has the strength of her convictions.
And unlike her weak sister, who always has a myriad of excuses,
she will be a success.
Norman Vincent Peal

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Post Today's Jeffersons 


When we get piled
upon one another in large cities, as in Europe,
we shall become as corrupt as Europe ...


The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government.


To compel a man to subsidize with
his taxes the propagation of ideas which he
disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

-Thomas Jefferson

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"When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis

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dorajar wrote:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis


Ugh. Neo-cons. The worst.

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Post Sinclair's Got His Points 


“In other countries, art and literature are left to a lot of shabby bums living in attics and feeding on booze and spaghetti, but in America the successful writer or picture-painter is indistinguishable from any other decent businessman”

-Sinclair Lewis

sounds remarkably like artistic Darwinism...

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dorajar wrote:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis


As opposed to being draped in a burkha and carrying a suicide bomb belt and a Q'ran.

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thrice wrote:
dorajar wrote:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis


As opposed to being draped in a burkha and carrying a suicide bomb belt and a Q'ran.


Who's the last burkha-wearing, Koran-reading person we've elected to Federal office in this country, thrice? Last I checked we have one Muslim in Congress--one. And he's not exactly the suicide bombing type.

Sinclair Lewis is apt.

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That's exactly the point, Dora. The suicide bombers who are bullying their way to ruling their fellow citizens in the unfortunate countries to which I refer aren't being elected either. In fact they especially target for death those who have the temerity to believe that their nations should be ruled by the democratic process and not religious dictatorships. Seems to me that the dreaded "cross bearers" who arguably ran this country during the Bush years were voted out of office just as routinely as they were voted in, so to conclude that they heralded an era of Fascism is just a bit absurd.

Ironically in this instance Lewis, for all his merits, was ignorant of the history which had unfolded in his lifetime, considering that virtually every major Fascist movement of the 20th Century was led by dictators and their stooges who were atheists and vigorously persecuted religion, particularly Catholics and Jews, because they stood as rivals to the State for the loyalty of the people. Not to be confused, of course, with the atheist dictatorships of the Left in China, Russia, Cuba and many other countries who banned religion, slaughtered clergymembers, and butchered millions of their countrymen under the banner of social and economic justice.

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John Stuart Mill:

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.



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It's usually the people with the lowest understanding of the English language who push the hardest to make it the U.S. standard language.

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Post From The Great Edward R. Murrow 


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves"

"If we were to do the Second Coming of Christ in color for a full hour, there would be a considerable number of stations which would decline to carry it on the grounds that a Western or a quiz show would be more profitable."

"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."

"The speed of communications is wondrous to behold. It is also true that speed can multiply the distribution of information that we know to be untrue."

Edward R. Murrow

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Post Character Test 


"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

-Abe Lincoln

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"If you cannot read all your books, fondle them, peer into them, let them fall open where they will, read from the first sentence that arrests the eye, set them back on their shelves with your own hands, arrange them on your own plan so that if you do not know what is in them, you will at least know where they are. Let them be your friends; let them at any rate be your acquaintances."--Winston Churchill

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“Life has taught me that active loving saves one from a morbid preoccupation with the shortcomings of society.” Alan Paton

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Post After an assistant cook was arrested for being in cahoots 


with Al Qaida, an American intelligence officer said - "Where is Mr. Big? Where's the cook?"

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"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either--but right through every human heart. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridge-head of good is retained. And even in the best of hearts, there remains an un-uprooted small corner of evil." --Aleksandr Sozhenitsyn

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"Given a child falling into a river, an old person in a burning building, and a woman fainting in the street, a band of convicts would risk their lives to give aid as quickly at least as a band of millionaires." --Charles Darrow

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"You will not become a saint through other people's sins." --Anton Chekov

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"I wonder if you ever change human beings with arguments alone: either by peppering them with little sharp facts or by blowing them up with great guns of truth. You scare them, but do you change them? I wonder if you ever make any real difference in human beings without understanding them and loving them. For when you argue with a man you are somehow trying to pull him down and make him less (and yourself more); but when you like him, how eager is he then to know the truth you have? There is nothing in the world that people so much thrive upon, grow fine and rosy and robust upon, as being loved." --David Grayson

"We are here to awaken from the illusion of our seperateness." --Thich Nhat Hanh

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"In the Soviet Union capitalism triumphed over communism. In this country capitalism triumphed over democracy." --Fran Lebowitz

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Funny to hear Fran Lebowitz bitch about capitalism. She's managed to milk her reputation on the wine-and-beret circuit and remain rich under that system without having published a notable adult book in 30 years. Capitalism been berry, berry good to Fran, and the Men's Warehouse is no doubt grateful for her continued patronage and prosperity.

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Post Lordy 


Quote:
For when you argue with a man you are somehow trying to pull him down and make him less (and yourself more);


In his college classes, Wellstone was famous for arguing with his conservative students. The absurd notion that he was engaged in ego gratification exercizes at their expense is laughable. And when most parents argue with their adult offspring, I doubt they're "somehow" trying to pull their kids down and make them less.

This seems to be yet another guy educated beyond his ability to think.

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How effective would you say your tactic of maligning people's intelligence generally is for you, Odin? Do the people you argue with often come to see and agree with your viewpoint after you've denigrated their "ability to think" enough times?

I think his point is that if you're just trying to make yourself right and the other guy wrong, go ahead and argue. If you actually want to change the other party's heart and mind, it helps to begin from a place of compassion.

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Post A coupla things 


Quote:
How effective would you say your tactic of maligning people's intelligence generally is for you, Odin?


Offhand, I'd say fairly effective. By the time I begin maligning their intellect, they've already demonstrated their inability and/or unwillingness to think sufficiently to grasp and adequately consider the points I'm making. At that point I'm usually making a wake-up call, which you referred to at one time here as me "being a bully." It wasn't. Sometimes people need to have their warped reality shaken up as an incentive to change. I don't see that loving the lazy-minded and reality-challenged does them any favors.

Quote:
Do the people you argue with often come to see and agree with your viewpoint after you've denigrated their "ability to think" enough times?


No. At that point I'd be worried if they agreed with my viewpoint. In my experience it's almost impossible to change the minds of the mindless. Some people just believe things, facts and evidence and reality be damned. Their beliefs are beyond the reach of argument and showing them love and compassion is usually interpreted as weakness or endorsement.

When I discuss things with people on the net, I almost always let their first insult or two go by because I figure I'm big enough to take a few shots and exchanging ad hominems interests me less than valid discussions. On the anti-strib site I frequented, I was so nice initially that one of the women conservatives referred to me as "Milquetoast." I let that one go by too but I doubt that's her opinion of me now.

Quote:
I think his point is that if you're just trying to make yourself right and the other guy wrong, go ahead and argue. If you actually want to change the other party's heart and mind, it helps to begin from a place of compassion.


First, nothing I do can "make" the other guy wrong in an argument. Second, the notion that most people are so intellectually dishonest that they'll give short shrift to arguments coming from anyone who doesn't "begin from a place of compassion" is more insulting than any ad hominem I've read, heard or used.

Mostly, I treat people the way I want to be treated - as an adult in a rough-and-tumble world. With the exception of the thinking-challenged fool you thought I bullied, I've probably insulted Thrice more than I've insulted anyone else here. I'd be very surprised if those insults adversely influenced his consideration of the points I make. And I'd be amazed if my compassion was a prerequisite for his altering or not altering his views.

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Post Re: A coupla things 


OdinofAzgard wrote:
Some people just believe things, facts and evidence and reality be damned.


The way you just believe your communication style is effective, all evidence (including being asked to leave an internet message board and never return) to the contrary?

Being good at reciting facts, or even putting them together to reach defensible conclusions, is a different skill set than communicating them to someone in a way that makes them ready to understand and agree. I understand that you don't think that's important--that people should be 100% mind, and no heart, spirit, or any of the other things they actually are. I imagine that leaves you frustrated most of the time.

It's basic communication. Go to any couples therapy session and they'll tell you that you have to get past wanting yourself to be right and the other person to be wrong, if you want to make any headway. I'm not talking about a high school debate format of pitting arguments against each other on a clearly defined issue. I'm talking about living in the world with people. In any case, I was posting the quote as a reminder to myself as much as anything else. I do feel the truth of it and have seen it, but it's so easy to forget it.

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Post Not feelin' the love, D 


so I'm unable to give your response due consideration. I'm such a needy ninny I require love and compassion from strangers before they can persuade me of anything. Somehow I sense you're somehow trying to build yourself up while somehow tearing me down. Your failure to accomodate needy ninnies like myself clearly demonstrates your basic communication style is lacking.

In the future, know that if I don't have a Sally Fields moment ("You like me! You really like me!") when reading your responses, you'll fail to be persuasive. That'll somehow be your fault, not mine.

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Oh Odin. Okey-dokey. Laughing

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Post Look For The Union Label 


“When school children start paying union dues, that 's when I'll start representing the interests of school children.”

-Albert Shanker, former president of the American Federation of Teachers

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Post Churchill On Socialism 


“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue being the equal sharing of misery.”

- Winston Churchill

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Post How is socialism 


a philosophy of failure and the gospel of envy?

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Post Harry S. Truman On Careers 


"My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!"

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Post Ben Stein On The Odd Priorities Of Government 


"Fathom the odd hypocrisy that the government wants every citizen to prove that they are insured, but people don't have to prove they are citizens."

Ben Stein

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"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both."
-Louis D. Brandeis

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