Interesting new tidbit from Beltrami County, as reported in Star Tribune:

"Mark Jeranek, who voted absentee in Beltrami County and whose ballot was rejected because he did not sign an outside envelope, said he has been approached several times by the Franken campaign asking him to sign an affidavit affirming that he did vote and that he wants his vote counted.

Jeranek, who lives in Jones Township near Bemidji, said an original affidavit sent to him by the Franken campaign indicated that Jeranek did sign the envelope. But when Jeranek approached Beltrami election officials about the issue, he came away convinced he had failed to sign the document.

"I'd like to have my vote counted, but it was my mistake, not anybody else's," he said. Jeranek said he voted for Franken but did not believe the Franken campaign knew that when it approached him.

Kay Mack, the county's auditor-treasurer and its chief election official, said she was troubled by what appeared to be an effort by the Franken campaign to challenge the rejection of the ballots without first contacting local officials. The data provided to the campaign clearly indicated that Jeranek has been rejected because he failed to sign the envelope, she said.

"They knew he hadn't signed it and they are still encouraging him to sign this affidavit, so that's frustrating," Mack said. "Whether they are attempting to do something wrong or maybe they read something wrong, I don't know."

Thrice Note: Still think the "stroke victim" story was just a boo boo, Dora? They're trying to get this new guy to sign a false affidavit, and they know it's false, because Beltrami County gave them the facts in writing. What was that book? "Lying Liars"?

It's painfully obvious that Al Franken intends to steal this election by throwing so much crap at the judge that 200 votes will sneak through in the poop blizzard. Expect this one to be fought out vote by vote, and air legal theories that no one's ever heard of.

I'm sick of all these shenanigans and all this vitriol. The Coleman campaign isn't exactly a model of goodness and integrity, and I believe that in his heart, Al believes he is fighting for Justice. Clearly you want Coleman to win, and God bless you. But can we just chill the natural frass out and wait for the recount to come in and show us the facts? If you want to dedicate yourself to helping make sure it's as fair as possible, you could volunteer to be a recount overseer like my dad has. You have to go through some training, then you can personally make sure that Al isn't getting away with all his weasly mischief.

Once again, Dora, the attitude toward current events depends on whose ox is gored.

When voting irregularities were alleged in the 2000 and 2004 elections (the vast majority of which were never substantiated), the Left made it sound like the end of democracy, and led the population to expect Bush Brownshirts kicking their doors down at any possible moment.

When Al Franken (and Governor Gregoire of Washington, for that matter) rig an election, it's Fighting for Justice.

Huh? Is there some kind of twisted Liberal logic that if they believe Bush stole an election, it's ok to steal one back to get a veto proof Democrat majority in the Senate?

The Franken/DNC strategy is very clear, and very well financed with funds coming in from all over the USA. Baffle, dazzle and intimidate small town election officials with armies of Washington lawyers in order to squeeze out a few votes here, and a few votes there, until Franken's vote deficit is cured and the Senate majority is insured. This isn't a battle of egos or personalities. This is a battle for control of the US Senate, and the Democrats intend to "win it at any price", as our "non-partisan" Secretary of State Mark Ritchie ironically characterized Norm Coleman's efforts.

Think this is on the up and up, Dora? Do you really believe in your heart that Al Franken's troops are going to be door knocking to salvage votes in counties and districts that Franken LOST to Coleman? Mighty damn funny that the vast majority of lost and miswritten votes coming in all seem to add to Al's total, isn't it? Bet your best hat that Franken isn't going to be printing up any milk cartons with pictures of missing Coleman voters to search for.

Do you really believe in your heart that in Minnesota, a thoroughly Blue state that has consistently elected Democratic candidates to most offices, there is some kind of Republican machine conspiracy to discard Dem votes and advance their own interests? In Hennepin County? Ramsey County? Beltrami County? All counties owned, operated and officiated by Democrats? Puhleese.

Am I feeling passionate about this? Damn right I am. And I won't sit by silently while Al and his henchmen steal an election that he would have won if the people of Minnesota could stand the creep. My hat's off to the election officials in Bemidji and other small towns (most likely loyal Democrats themselves, as is most of Northern Minnesota) who refuse to set their ethics aside and knuckle under to Franken's bullyboy tactics and Hollywood money machine.

I personally split my ballot and voted against one mean spirited, partisan, embarassing fool in the person of Michelle Bachmann on November 4. I voted for principle, and not party. And I'm not going to wait like a lamb to be slaughtered by another one in the person of Al Franken without a fight. This lamb has teeth, and won't hesitate to use them.



Last edited by thrice on Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

And I applaud your passion, thrice. Once again, I'm just saying it might be best utilized in volunteering to be an overseer of the recount. I think that's our best hope for a fair outcome.

I've considered it, Dora, and if I considered the integrity of local vote counters to be the major issue here, I might.

But I don't see that as the major issue. This will be played out in the courtroom. And the big decisions will be left up to judges who are being asked to discard election laws and let lawyers and politicians decide who will be granted exceptions to them, and to interpret the intent of voters who didn't express themselves in the way prescribed by law.

That's the big issue here, Dora. As was once said, "This is a nation of laws, not men". In other words, the quality of justice you get shouldn't depend on who you are. They should apply to everybody. If a Coleman voter casts an improper ballot, or doesn't follow the required procedures and deadlines for voting, it's on the scrap pile. Same should apply to Franken voters. Once you start lowering the bar and allowing do-overs and late submissions, you're begging for fraud and ballot box stuffing.

If we start allowing the wholesale "do over", there's no question that Franken will only concentrate his "vote salvaging" efforts in counties he was certain to gain the majority of votes in. The only possible way Coleman can counteract that is to outspend him, and scrape up an equal or better number of his own discarded votes. And there's no integrity test to show whether Frankenites would ever report Coleman votes that they discovered, because there's no payday in that for them.

The rules are there for a reason. For instance, the issue regarding the Bemidji guy who didn't sign his ballot envelope. I've voted in this manner in union elections many times. There's a purpose to it. You fill out your ballot, and put it in an envelope. You sign that envelope, and put it in a mailing envelope. That way, when the election clerk gets your mailed in vote, they can mark the rolls to indicate that you've voted, but they don't know who you voted for. Those envelopes are set aside, and later opened by actual vote tabulators who theoretically don't look at the name when they open and count the votes. It's a critical integrity test to protect voter privacy while preventing multiple voting by an individual. If you don't play by the rules, your vote gets discarded, and nobody ever knows who you voted for.

I'm just hoping our judges are honest enough to respect those rules. They land equally on everybody. Let the chips fall where they may.

One concept that drives me crazy is the theory of the undervote. Franken (as did others in other elections) is trying to propose that people who voted for Obama, but did not mark a vote for Senate, intended to vote for him. What the hell is that all about? Psychic voting?

My spouse might illustrate that scenario very well. She can't stand Norm Coleman, for a variety of reasons. She grew to dislike Al Franken over time as well, and would not vote for him. I don't know what she finally did in the voting booth. She either voted for Barkley, or didn't vote for Senate at all. Either way, her ballot should be tabulated as cast. No one has the right to infer her intentions, nor go back to her and ask/push her to state a preference. She already did. Let's dispose of that option right away.

thrice wrote:

One concept that drives me crazy is the theory of the undervote. Franken (as did others in other elections) is trying to propose that people who voted for Obama, but did not mark a vote for Senate, intended to vote for him. What the hell is that all about? Psychic voting?

That's an interesting way of thinking. By that same token, one might assume that I voted for McCain because I voted against Orenstein due to his insane stance on gun control. One would be very very wrong. But one might assume it. What one can't do is take my ballot after the fact and say, "Oh, he must've meant to vote for McCain. See here he voted against Orenstein." One jacks with my vote at one's own peril.

I don't know if how the ballots worked were the same across the entire state, but looking back at mine, it's not rocket science. There's a front, a back, and little circles to be filled in. If you don't want to vote for someone, don't fill in the circle. This can be done because you don't want someone in office, or because you don't know anything about the candidates for that office.

Lots of grey area there and not a whole lot of evidence to interpret people's votes after the fact. I can understand wanting to go around and verify votes that had been discarded, even if Franken may be doing it in a poor manner. But for ballots that have been accepted and simply don't have an entry for Franken or Coleman? In that case, the person who filled out that ballot simply didn't vote on that issue and all we can do is guess as to their motive for not filling it in. Plain and simple.